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Post by Bernard Kron on May 20, 2021 15:10:54 GMT -5
My shelves of completed models filled to overflowing quite some ago and it’s long been past time to cull the herd. I returned to car modeling around 2008. Obviously my earliest efforts would suffer from a lack of technique at the very least and it was these models that I recently decided to attempt to sell on eBay. The first batch of 10 went up at auction at the beginning of the month, and much to my astonishment, all sold! Now it’s time for the second batch and I thought I would share my impressions and experiences using this dragster I built in 2013 as an example of the issues I’ve encountered. The first and most obvious issue is that many of these models are more than 10 years old and the adhesive joints have become dry and brittle and parts tend to fall off when the model is handled. So virtually all the models have required extensive regluing and repair before offering them for sale. When I first started building again I used super glue but, within a couple of years I discovered that I was extremely allergic to Cyanoacrylate. These days I mainly use plain old Testors red tube solvent glue or liquid solvent glues like Tamiya thin or methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) for styrene to styrene joints, or, most often, 5-minute epoxy for bonding dissimilar materials or where positioning and strength are critical. I miss CA for its speed and the tiny amounts that you can use and my build times are fairly slow, but my models are much stronger. I was shocked at how fragile these early models have proven to be. The good news about these weak joints is the models come apart fairly easily. This has turned out to be important because I’m discovering parts and subassemblies that I’d rather not part with. In these cases I find myself rebuilding the models with substitute parts from my stash. It takes some time, but, since most of these models require some sort of rebuilding, repair and cleanup, it’s just part of the process of preparing them for sale. Built 8 years ago, this little digger below is one of the newer models I’m selling. It’s a pretty clean build and, in particular, I still admire the injected hemi it originally featured. But the big injected “elephant motor” is a rather odd duck for the period and this has always bugged me a bit. But I really dig that mill! I have no idea what I’ll use it for, but out it came. The base kit I used for this project was an MPC Ramchargers front engine dragster and the chassis, in particular, remains one of my favorites. To replace the motor I simply built up the kit Ramchargers motor, of which I have quite a few since the Ramchargers chassis has become a mainstay for my dragster models. I was surprised by my inclination to take the time to strip much of the kit chrome and detail the motor, even to the point of using an aftermarket pre-wired distributor from Morgan Automotive Detail and a set of 3D-printed zoomie headers from 3D Model Specialties. Needless to say I have zero expectations to sell this, or for that matter any of my models, for a profit. That ship sailed away a very long time ago! Here are some before and after shots of the original model and the For Sale version I just completed. Just the engine swap makes it a far more ordinary and prosaic piece than it was. Hopefully someone will find it of interest. Thanx for lookin’, B.         |
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Post by jbwelda on May 20, 2021 16:46:37 GMT -5
Yeah I saw some of your models on ebay and was tempted to bid but I don't have anywhere to display them anymore so nixed that idea. Some drew pretty good money.
jb
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Post by deuce on May 20, 2021 18:47:37 GMT -5
Are you getting good bidding wars on them? Just curious, as I have far more to build than I currently have room for. So, some will have to go. Also, are you "hearing" whether they are buying them to display or to redo? I see a lot of people on FB that buy them just to strip them down and go through them again. With a well built model like yours, I think that would be insane.
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Post by jbwelda on May 21, 2021 11:42:51 GMT -5
the ones i saw were bringing in the range of 25 to 40 dollars or so. Not a king's ransom but not bad for a built model. Most who were buying them at that price were getting a real bargain.
jb
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Post by Bernard Kron on May 21, 2021 14:18:09 GMT -5
Are you getting good bidding wars on them? Just curious, as I have far more to build than I currently have room for. So, some will have to go. Also, are you "hearing" whether they are buying them to display or to redo? I see a lot of people on FB that buy them just to strip them down and go through them again. With a well built model like yours, I think that would be insane. I sold 10 out of 10 models in the first batch. Bidding ranged from a minimum of 2 to a high of 13 bids, with average being 7 not including automatic bids. I wouldn't say there were actual bidding wars but there were buyers who definitely knew they wanted the model. One buyer bought 3 models and bid unsuccessfully on a fourth, and 2 buyers bid unsuccessfully on at least two other of my models. Virtually all bidders were repeat bidders. The general impression I got was that they were collectors looking for nicely built models in a style they liked (which in my case are relatively period correct old school hot rods, customs and drag subjects). From my perspective none of these sales were in any way "profitable" since I have far more into them, even ignoring bench time, that I received. All included "Adult Built" in the title. Car modeling is my hobby not my profession - no Pro Built nonsense here... But making a true profit wasn't the point of doing this. Many of these models no longer mean all that much to me except as examples of what I was doing a decade ago, and, as I said, shelf space is beyond full with models parked in several rooms wherever I could find space. I had hoped to find good buyers who were interested in the subjects and might appreciate the models. I tried to price them fairly cheaply so they would be sold, rather than continuing to take up space. The fact that none sold for the initial asking price means would indicate I a fairly good job if pricing them.I have good build and completed photographs of all of them which is all I'll need going forward. Overall, so far, I'd rate this experiment a success. I would note that for the buyer these models were far from cheap. All were fully finished, had been cleaned and repaired, and with shipping the least a buyer spent was $35.00 with the buyer who bought three in it for $107.67 despite the fact that I combined shipping which saved him $22.00. Most sales were in the $50-$60 range all costs included. There were no "junkyards" and for this reason I think the buyers were all collectors and will leave the models as-is. All of the base models used are commonly available as kits, neither rare nor collectible in their own right. BTW, one buyer's "handle" is buy2keep, LOL. In some cases the buyer also sells on eBay so we'll see if any pop up to be resold. I received compliments on the models themselves from 3 of the 8 buyers, and at least 2 inquiries if I would be selling more. Which was all rather flattering, to say the least. I suspect that there's an off-shoot of collectors of built plastic models from the world of die-cast model collectors. I'm working to post 10 more this weekend if I can get the repairs and cleanups done in time. I also, in several cases, have shot fresh photos for the sale so that the info presented is as up-to-date and attractive as possible. Anyone who thinks there isn't work involved in all this is quite mistaken! For those interested here are links to the first ten: '49 Mercury Lead Sled Custom - Adult Built'36 Ford Slantback Tudor Altered - Adult Built'34 Ford Chopped Highboy Coupe - Adult Built'32 Ford Fordor 1/4 mile dirt track jalopy - Adult Built"Nitro Junior" Fuel Front Engine Dragster - Adult Built "Double Trouble" Twin Engine Vintage Dragster - Adult Built'32 Ford Chopped 3-Window Coupe Street Rod - Adult BuiltTin Box No.4 - Early 60's Competition Coupe Dragster - Adult BuiltEarly 60's Style '25-T Altered Roadster Dragster - Adult BuiltEarly 60's Fiat Altered Coupe Dragster - Adult Built |
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Post by TooOld on May 23, 2021 6:44:20 GMT -5
It does look great with the "new" Ramchargers motor installed but I'm like you and kind of favor the fuel injected motor you originally used , overall a great looking dragster ! Good luck selling off you collection !
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Post by jbwelda on May 23, 2021 11:12:01 GMT -5
Bernard can you give us some insights into the new ebay "model" for payment? How is it working and is it really true ebay requires advance payment of shipping for all auctions now, taken directly out of the bank account you link to your ebay account? I heard a report of that but just cannot believe it is true, but you know, ebay and all. So would like some insight so I can decide whether I want to continue selling on ebay, I ignored their warnings that I would not be able to if I did not surrender bank account details.
jb
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Post by Bernard Kron on May 23, 2021 12:37:48 GMT -5
Bernard can you give us some insights into the new ebay "model" for payment? How is it working and is it really true ebay requires advance payment of shipping for all auctions now, taken directly out of the bank account you link to your ebay account? I heard a report of that but just cannot believe it is true, but you know, ebay and all. So would like some insight so I can decide whether I want to continue selling on ebay, I ignored their warnings that I would not be able to if I did not surrender bank account details. jb The new payments system is very new and, also, I'm a relative rookie on eBay selling so my impressions aren't based on much prior experience as a seller. Essentially eBay has been gradually weaning itself off of its dependence on PayPal as it's financial services and payments provider. Until the late last year all eBay transactions went through PayPal and your PayPal account was a holding account for both money you received as a seller on eBay and money you disbursed to sellers. They began converting sellers to the new system at the end of last year, if I'm not mistaken.
Leaving PayPal's orbit began when eBay was forced by activist hedge fund investors (i.e. Carl Icahn and others) to spin off PayPal into a separate company effective July 20th, 2015. eBay maintains a substantial interest in PayPal but no longer shares management or control in PayPal. The other big thing that was happening was the rise of competing online payments services such as Apple Pay, Google Pay, Google Wallet, Venmo, etc. eBay has had to become increasingly flexible as to how it processed payments. Since the PayPal spinoff eBay began accepting direct payment of purchases by buyers from their charge card accounts (Visa, MasterCharge, Discover, etc.) but sellers still had to pay fees, shipping, etc. from their PayPal accounts, and receipts by EBay on seller's behalf went into the seller's PayPal account. This was very lucrative for PayPal since they almost certainly got a daily "float" of millions of dollars that they could collect interest on. Allowing direct Charge Card payments meant that eBay had its own holding account, and resulting float, separate from PayPal. What was missing was direct access to seller's bank accounts which is what your asking about. Starting a few months ago eBay was reaching out to sellers and telling them they would have to provide a bank account that eBay could directly pay into and withdraw from. The advantage for the seller is that receipts went into their bank accounts far more quickly (typically 12-48 hours) and that the new system eliminated any PayPal fees. In exchange eBay has access to a bank account to get paid it's fees. Here's my experience so far. I only provided eBay with a bank account somewhere in the middle of auctioning my first batch of models, and lots of eBay buyers still do everything through PayPal, so I got dinged for PayPal fees and money flowed into my PayPal account for some of the sales. But some receipts went directly to eBay. In both cases within a day or so of payment I was notified by PayPal or eBay that there was money available to transfer to my account. The difference is that in PayPal's case they hold the money unless actively initiate a transfer. Under the new eBay system they sweep your account either daily or weekly, you choice, and pay directly into bank account. So the new system is superior IMHO since I don't view PayPal as a beneficial savings account (I also only use charge cards and pay them off on the due date each month - cash debit cards are a mugs game IMHO). The confusion comes because eBay disburses the entire amount of the transactions, less the listing and selling fees, to your account. Any shipping fees aren't paid off at that time. That's all fine except that you rack up amounts owing to eBay and they want to get paid. If you sweep your account of cash daily then they have to go somewhere for their $$$$, and that's your bank account. Now I must say they are very correct about dipping into your bank account. They send you a Heads Up e-mail 72 hours in advance and (this is important) you have the option to pay it off immediately using you eBay account payment options. Now what I like is I can charge that amount to my charge card and pay it off with all my monthly charges. Meanwhile the float on the cash is mine, not theirs. (You should know that I almost never use cash for anything unless it's required...). As far as I can tell it looks like eBay collects outstanding fees and shipping either weekly of or bi-weekly. The notification I got was about a week after I had gotten my e Bay receipts deposited to my bank account. It's definitely not the case that they collect shipping immediately. So my impression is that the new system addresses many issues for all 3 eBay parties, eBay, buyers and sellers. Of course as I mentioned lots of eBayers still transact through PayPal and in those cases the new system won't help. But so far eBay seems to have done a could job of accruing benefits to all parties and I'm fine with it. |
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Post by Bernard Kron on May 23, 2021 12:42:17 GMT -5
It does look great with the "new" Ramchargers motor installed but I'm like you and kind of favor the fuel injected motor you originally used , overall a great looking dragster ! Good luck selling off you collection ! Thanks! For some reason various folks think I've quit modeling and that I'm liquidating my collection. None of that is true. I'll probably auction off about 30 models, which is not even half of the builds I've done, so the shelves, while relieved of some stress, will still be pretty full. And while cleaning, repairing and photographing has occupied a fair amount of my bench time lately, I still have lots of projects going. My biggest problem right now in getting my dragster project done involves finding someone to print the white and metallic decals I need. |
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Post by jbwelda on May 24, 2021 11:59:07 GMT -5
Thanks Bernard for the complete explanation, I think I get most of it but still have a couple more questions. Probably stupid questions.
First is this bit about shipping. Why would ebay bill you for shipping? The buyer paid shipping and it should be in the total amount received for the auction, and ebay probably took its cut (this is theft in my eyes) of shipping when it first got the money. So why are they later taking something out of your funds received for shipping at a later date? Or am I still misunderstanding that part? My way of thinking is that the seller is paying shipping, you are paying to actually ship the item, ebay is making their cut out of shipping (!!!) along with the original payment, so why do they have to hit you after the fact for any more cash? I am probably missing something or forgetting part of the critical path here. Do they somehow not collect shipping costs from the buyer initially? Or are they somehow paying the shipping and then deducting it from your account? Kind of puzzling to me and the crux of what I do not understand about this new system.
Second, it is my understanding that while buyers can pay through paypal, none of the ebay transactions to the seller involve paypal, so I am kind of confused why you say sellers can still use paypal. I do not think they can, I think it all has to go through this new ebay payment scheme.
And yeah that float business adds up to a nice sum for doing nothing on their (or previously, paypal's) part. I just liked having paypal as a separate cache of cash so to speak and having all my transactions going through them with their protections in place. Not sure any protections are in place agains fraud or hacking when you use your bank account. Could be wrong about that.
One more thing though, from what I have heard with this new set up, you do NOT get paid immediately like when your money went to paypal. You have to wait for your payment to clear (something or other) before you get your money whereas with pp your account got the money immediately and you could then use the money to purchase stuff straight through paypal or you could transfer it to your bank account, which did take a couple days. But I almost always just kept the bread in my pp account because I would use it up soon anyhow being the buying addict I tend to be.
By the way I agree those dumb debit cards are an idiot's game unless you are so credit deprived you cannot get a real credit card. Just another way for the bank to separate you from your hard earned for the "privilege" of "convenience". And I also make a point of paying off all CC balances at statement time, I have not paid any interest on credit cards in over 30 years now I think, and am very proud of that fact. But unlike you, I prefer to pay cash when I can...you know what they say about only drug dealers and criminals use cash nowadays.
jb
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Post by Bernard Kron on May 24, 2021 13:20:31 GMT -5
Thanks Bernard for the complete explanation, I think I get most of it but still have a couple more questions. Probably stupid questions. First is this bit about shipping. Why would ebay bill you for shipping? ... Second, it is my understanding that while buyers can pay through paypal, none of the ebay transactions to the seller involve paypal, so I am kind of confused why you say sellers can still use paypal. I do not think they can, I think it all has to go through this new ebay payment scheme. And yeah that float business adds up to a nice sum for doing nothing on their (or previously, paypal's) part. I just liked having paypal as a separate cache of cash so to speak and having all my transactions going through them with their protections in place. Not sure any protections are in place agains fraud or hacking when you use your bank account. Could be wrong about that. One more thing though, from what I have heard with this new set up, you do NOT get paid immediately like when your money went to paypal. You have to wait for your payment to clear (something or other) before you get your money whereas with pp your account got the money immediately and you could then use the money to purchase stuff straight through paypal or you could transfer it to your bank account, which did take a couple days. But I almost always just kept the bread in my pp account because I would use it up soon anyhow being the buying addict I tend to be. ''' eBay negotiates bulk deals with all the various shipping oligopolies (USPS, UPS, FedEx) and gives the seller the option of either shipping the item themselves (and thus bills the seller for it's cut - 10%! - of the amount the seller charges the buyer) or gives the seller the option of essentially buying a shipping label from eBay and printing it themselves to afix to the package. The advantage for the seller is that he gets a discount over what he would pay buying shipping services from one of the oligopolies if he bought them in single lots from said oligop. As an example, for a 12 x 12 x 6 box (one of USPS's premarked but NOT flat rate free boxes you can order) weighing 15 oz. and shipping to downtown Boston, Mass., if I walked into my local P.O. and bought the service it would cost me $9.90 according to USPS' on line calculator. At eBay they charge me $8.70 including their 10% spiff so I save $1.20. If my p.o. has a package drop I can avoid the line and processing as well. BTW, in my experience by the far the cheapest way to ship model cars reliably and safely is via USPS priority mail. But the anti USPS propaganda machine has been so effective that many buyers, given the option (which I can allow in my listing) that they choose UPS ground which costs them more and exposes the package to more days of handling. As far as reliability, lost packages, etc. my own experience has been that there is little to choose among the oligops except that the more you pay the slower the package moves unless you ship overnight. USPS wins every time on a cost basis and is no less reliable. I'm unclear as to whether all future sales will go directly to my eBay account even if the buyer pays via PayPal on their end. I overlapped the change in my account mid sale on the first batch of models so I'll have to see going forward. On the first batch, once I switched systems, they swept my account everyday and I got paid within about 24 hours into my bank account. The amount I get paid includes the shipping amount. As I said earlier, billings for shipping net charges seem to occur weekly or bi-weekly (not sure yet). So I get the float an that, and if I choose to pay immediately via charge card then I get the further float on the charge card billing cycle. As a point of detail, I differ from you in considering PayPal NOT to be a bank account of any sort. I rarely use it and the cash in that account is (for me) not of any immediate use. So anytime I receive cash into my PayPal account I immediately initiate transfer. I still have to remember ti do it, and they take 48 hours unless I want to pay an additional percentage fee. So, bottom line, if you use PayPal as an active deposit account that that;s fine, but I personally don't which accounts for our differing attitude regarding. That's why I like the new eBay system. As for all these example of floats, well that's banking, and that's how someone gets paid somewhere for all the costs of running these systems. Nothing is ever free and we all should be able to work the system however we can, IMHO. |
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Post by jbwelda on May 24, 2021 19:37:14 GMT -5
ok, thanks again for replying Bernard, let me just summarize the pertinent parts and see if you agree:
you can still do your own shipping (going to the post office, buying postage, and sending the package) in which case ebay just takes their 10 points out of as it is sent to them from wherever, paypal, some other source, etc on its way to your bank account you have linked with them.
but you can get a discount on shipping by using ebays shipping service, basically you buy a label and postage for less than the PO would charge you, which entails them collecting the money to pay for it from your bank account, basically the same as buying postage at the PO except its cost is taken directly from your linked account. Thats the only reason there would be any withdrawal activity on your bank account.
So that makes sense, which is more than another discussion I am having with someone over it, and I am going to report this back to him, because I have no practical experience with the new system
And now I am much more with you on paypal, without the direct link to ebay, I don't have any real reason to have a balance there and currently it is sitting at a little over twenty bucks. In fact, within paypal itself, it doesn't seem to let you pay for things elsewhere with your account balance, they want you to cash out into your bank account. I may have this wrong though, or I think at some point I refused further intrusions from them and they stopped me from using my account for purchases. I hate this stuff but its a necessary evil I guess.
I am pretty sure that as of right now, if someone pays via paypal it will NOT show up in your paypal account but will instead eventually end up in your ebay linked bank account. I know that because I drove 60 miles to pick up a Big Rod from a guy and my payment had not appeared in his paypal account. This was right on the cusp of the change and I had to go get cash and pay him. Silver lining: ebay lost a sale because he cancelled the auction after I paid him, hence he did not have to pay them their blood money, and I did not have to pay any paypal fees. WIN WIN LOSE!
jb
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Post by fordrodnkustom on May 24, 2021 21:14:15 GMT -5
Thanks B & JB for this very informative discussion. I've been out of the ebay game for some time and after hearing all this I think I'll stay out.
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Post by Bernard Kron on Jun 28, 2021 13:38:10 GMT -5
Hi guys. I thought I'd report back on my eBay adventure.
With one exception, the experiment was a success. The time spent to clean up and update the model was time well spent. Of the 20 models I put up, 18 sold, all but 1 for more than the opening bid. I offered 10 each in two batches a week apart. I had 3 repeat buyers from the first group. In each case I had cleaned up the model and in some cases re-photographed it. Because the point of the exercise was to clear some shelf space and get them in the hands of people who would actually want them, I think this was the right approach. In absolute terms it could never have been to sell them for profit. That was the case long before I ever considered selling them. Quite a few were strongly bid, even selling for multiples of the opening price. Several buyers reached out to me to tell me how much they liked their model, so that was quite gratifying.
As to the exception, in case buyer won the auction but never paid so I canceled the order and re-offered. However, it did not sell so it is included to the 2 unsold models. Both the unsold had relatively weak traffic and watchers so it was the models themselves as much as any issues with buyers.
Payment from buyers (with the exception noted), and from eBay into my bank account, was prompt and without issue. Referencing the discussion with jb above, under the "new system" payment into my bank account never took more than 2 banking days and was faster and cheaper than from PayPal. For 4 of the models sold I hadn't switched the "new system" and had to request transfer from PayPal, and additionally PayPal had charged me a fee making the sale through PayPal. So, in my view, the "new system" is better.
I may sell a few more from my shelves once I find bench time to do some prep work on them.
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